HOW PAGAN ARE YOU?

[Lukis]

I knew this would grab your attention! :) "Id like to make it very clear to everyone i am not actualy going to measure your standards" :p

Open your horizons by opening your mind!

So whats your opinion on non christians having christian mind sets? Do you believe demons for example are all evil? What about lust, greed, wrath all the so called sins, envy,glutony, pride...what about protecting your patch of land?

Sin to me is anything that convicts me, stealing candy from a baby, oh thats bad, but i wouldnt hesitate to strike a burglar and if he endedup in hospital...good job, but if he died, well bring on a jury damb it.

[RavenStar]

I know plenty of non-Christians that utilise the Christian ethos as a guide to living - nothing wrong with that. The Christian set of commandments is very well known to most people, and they seem to work (well, SOME of them!) in today's society, so why not? As for the seven deadly sins, well, i think that each of them has a place in each of us, and not all for bad...
Pride in one's self is not a bad thing, unless it spirals into a disdain for people who may be thought of as 'lesser'; or unless you become so fractured by a search for what you percieve to be perfection that you waste away your life... there's a saying that goes ..."The ransom is heavy for those that try to pass beyond the mirror." Lust is not a bad thing - i lust for my girlfriend, and some days it is insatiable - but surrounding that lust for her is a love that is boundless, and i yearn for no other. If lust is containable within a loving relationship, then it only serves to strengthen the bond between the two. Wrath? Well, i have to say i inherited my father's explosive temper. Oh, i got wrath baby - like you wouldn't believe! But i try to control it and direct it as i would any of my emotions... and it can serve me well, but more often than not, it get's away from me. Yep - i even get envious of other people (I am human!) - but it is a prime motivator for bettering myself!

As for 'demons' being all evil, well... i'm not sure how to go about broaching this subject. Simply put, i don't believe in 'demons' as such - and i don't believe in absolute evil, either... but i think i may have to think about this more, Lukis.

Personally i try to avoid using the term 'sin', as it is not found within my faith. My moral code has been forged through life experience, and i suppose i have been lucky enough to have been given a very vocal concience. I'm empathic to those around me, and the people i've hurt either directly or indirectly have my sympathy burned on my spirit. I've done bad things, but i have come through them and can see them behind me - clearly showing me the way to a brighter path. I have to always move forward.

I don't believe i have done anything that could convict or punish me more than i can punish myself. I am a harsh mistress of my 'self' - and i have experienced enough of the Law of Return to feel absolutely content with my life now.

...So - How Pagan AM i? =) teehee!

[Lukis]

On a scale of 1 - 10...i wouldnt dare! ;)

What you shared was excellent thanx! I totaly hear what your saying and can agree intirely! Great post

[RavenStar]

Awww, thankyou, and you're totally welcome!
=)

[Lukis]

Yes it seems today im obssesed with this doctrine but you did ask first =) i do have to admit ive got baggage (so if you know a spell!?:) I think ur absolutly correct to! Well done

O and how pagan are you on a scale of 1 - 10 .....i still wouldnt dare...

[Lukis]

True that how interesting i didnt know. I think i understand what your saying, if everyone was a god like figure, ya mean? With humane morals - good for everything and everyone?

JC is like Muhammad, a great prophet, a wise man with respectable virtues, god like in the eyes of not just a crowed but individualy, spiritualy hungry people. In their eyes hes what man is 'suposed to be'...

[Nika]

"Open your horizons by opening your mind"
A truer sentence could not be formed for such a topic as this. However, first things first.

The notion, or concept, of 'sin' is not purely a Christian one. It's simply one concept that Christians have played upon for a looooonnnng time now. The word 'sin' is actually rather harmless, and even essential to life. Without sin, we would not grow, learn, achieve new goals, better ourselves or even develop. The word sin means, in fact, to make a mistake. That's all. Now, in Christianity Jesus was deemed to be perfect. He was born without sin, as no parents had to have intercourse to produce him (and we all know how evil sex is haha), which is why all people are born "in sin", ever since the supposed first woman and man introduced sin by eating from a magical tree. They made that first mistake (hence why humanity deserved centuries of suffering), but apparently Jesus could not make a mistake. Afterall, if Jesus was technically also God, could an ominisicent, omnipotent and all-good deity ever make a mistake? To do so would be ungodly. And that is what early Christians strived for. To be like Jesus, or like God, and be perfect. Thus they were supposed to try and sin no more. Good luck with that! As human beings we are NOT perfect, we can't be, and if we were than the whole point of Jesus' sacrifice so that lil human beings could be worthy (in God's eyes) of love and salvation would have been pointless. For Jesus to be who Jesus became, we had to sin. For Jesus's sacrifice to mean anything, we have to continue sinning. If we all became perfect and unable to do wrong, then Christianity would crumble. Not like that would be a bad thing, of course, but for as long as people have freewill and differing opinions, we will never attain a state of perfection simply because perfection means different things for everybody.

Now that my short rant on sinning is over, time to move onto point/rant two. The whole thing with non Christians having Christian mindsets, in my opinion, is simply due to the state of society. In Western society, it's not surprising that most people will hold, more or less, Christian viewpoints. This doesn't exclude modern day Pagans. And the reason for this is simple... look at sociology and history. Now, combine the two. Christianity, in the Western world, was a deeply influential and powerful movement that influenced all aspects of life, from law, to medicine, to education, to societial roles and heirarchies, for a millennia. Most of our modern-day laws are linked with many of the commandments and other biblical laws within the New Testament. Thankfully, things like the constitution, and every life being valid, help prevent some of the harsher and more draconian Old Testament laws, however these continue to prevail in countries that haven't been as deeply influenced by Christianity. For instance, Islam, following the Koran, does not place any notice on the New Testament (that's the half with Jesus) and instead follow the Old Testament, which is why things such as stoning and inequality between sexes, continues. Whether or not you'd like to admit it, Jesus did do much good for our modern society, it's simply those who claim to follow and do misdeeds (or sins), in his name who darken his good intentions.

Now, demons. Oooh, what fun! Demons, as we all know, are also not simply a Christian concept, and have played in the shadows and twisted our thoughts ever since we could access our imaginations. With time they grew, developed and became more rounded. Some even gained names and personalities. Many were surprisingly similar to other major demons from other cultures, despite being seperated by immense distances of ocean, mountains or other physical barriers. This can simply be because we are of the same species, with the same vulnerabilities and weaknesses, and we simply gave form to psychological fears and unseen threats. Often the gods and sacred beings of one civilisation would become demonized when another group of people, with a different culture or beliefs, conquered them. This is a popular theory as to why the Christian devil seems physically similar to the Horned God and other gods of the wild and the hunt. So it's not surprising that these demons were all thought to be evil, terrorising agents that would force you to do something horrible simply for giggles. Not that it wouldn't be fun for demons if they really could be bothered possessing some poor peasent, but I still think it'll be a lot more fun and effective if they took to possessing more powerful and influential members of society. That way they can at least attain their supposed goal of creating Hell on Earth a little bit easier. However... considering the amount of people who believe that God really does choose their American president, perhaps this theory really isn't too far off.

Personally, I don't believe that demons are wholly evil. However, this is because I don't believe anything can be wholly one way or another. Nothing is truely black or white, one glance around you and the world will confirm that. People who seem like demons are still capable of much good, whilst those who appear to be saints also harbour more negative traits. So it makes sense to believe that if demons do exist, they'll still be forced to follow the laws of life and nature in some way. If Angels are capable of much pain and destruction, or what we commonly call evil (they are the warriors of God and are the beings responsible for slaying babies and pouring pestiliance and disease on Earth) then surely demons can be capable of good, and therefore cannot possibly be wholly evil. They may prefer the darker side, but that doesn't mean that it's all they are capable of.

The seven deadly sins, another fun subject. Again, I believe it's all about balance. Putting too much emphasis on one particular trait so that it harms you or others is easily not the best idea in the world. However, we also need to include some of these deadly sins in life. For instance, if we didn't have Pride, than what will urge us to continue to strive towards our goals and succeed in life? Without vanity, what will encourage us to spend a significant portion of our day adhering to good hygiene practicies? Without lust, well we may solve the overpopulation crisis but in the long run it may not be the best thing for the survival of our species. Like everything, good balance is essential to life, whether it be the seven deadly sins, or our everyday diet. However, being a Libra I may be a tad biased towards the importance of balance and having everything try and work together, haha.

Ok, I think I may have gone on for long enough now. So, Lukis, what do you think? How Pagan am I? :p

[Lukis]

Its a good question actualy eh? How pagan are you? Great post Nika, were on the same wave i think! Cheers for sharing! My moon sign is Libra and im always trying to find the balancing point, but if i found it i think life would stop! so i guess everythings always gona be in motion, evolving...

Later

[Lukis]

Very true! I agree! Ill adjust the disscusion so no one feels measured, these werent my intentions just gaining attention soz.

[Frances]

Have not actually been brought up a Christian, I guess the only real "influence" Christianity has on me is our Christain based society, which I really have little say in. However to cleanse whatever Christian stranglehold may be creeping in, my group does an annual "cleansing" in the form of reciting the Lord's Prayer backwards as is found in Paul Huson's "Mastering Witchcraft".

Huson suggests over a period of three nights to light a candle, visualise chains around being struck by bolts of lightening whilst reading the Lord's prayer backwards. The aim is to lift all the Judeo-Christian garbage from one's shoulders.

From personal experience, I have found that even doing this once can have interesting results, especially when it comes to "clearing one's perception" on things. Give it a go - you could be surprised. If you hear the "niggling" voice, ask yourself why - what are you scared of.

THE LORD'S PRAYER BACKWARDS:

NEMA! LIVEE, MORF SU REVILLED TUB NOISHAYTPMET OOTNI TON SUH DEEL SUS TSHAIGA SAPSERT TAHT YETH. VIGRAWF EU ZA SESAPSERT RUA SUH VIGRAWF DERB ILAID RUA YED SITH SUH VIG NEVEH NI SI ZA THRE NI NUD EEB LIW EYTH MUCK MODNGIK EYTH MAIN EYTH EEB DWOHLAH NEVAH NI TRA CHIOO. RETHARF RUA!

NOTE: Text is written phonetically.

After the rite, quietly contemplate what comes to the surface of your consciousness. You might feel the need to "burn" it away - write it on a piece of paper which is then burnt.

I guess I should also mention that this is NOT an anti-Christian ritual of any kind - all you are doing is simply freeing up your subconscious from any possible indoctrination that may have filtered through from even simply living in a Christian-based society.

If anyone does perform this ritual, I would be interested in hearing about your experiences etc.

BB - Frances

[Lukis]

Well having some heavy baggage from a xian up bringing i found this excellent! I started last nite, at midnite i wound into a sole focus on being cleansed, had a small ritual and said the prayer and can honestly say its started working wonders! So will do so again two more times at midnite to see if it can be harnessed even more...

Thank you Frances
DB

[Frances]

My personal experience from the first time I did this ritual was almost as if I was stepping away from myself and observing my life - my interactions and perceptions etc .. where I got the ideals and concepts, ethics and morals from etc. Very interesting indeed.

The next stage is not to "blame" those who have influenced us - ie society, parents etc ... for the most part (especially with respect to parents/guardians) they only bestow upon us what they know themselves.

Therefore it is up to us to break the molds if we disagree.

BB - Frances

[Twisted Pixie]

Ahoy hoy.

I dont believe Demons exist... but i know plenty who do and thats cool with me =) I dont believe in sins either, i dont believe in "evil", I believe good and bad comes down to peoples opinions. I also dont believe that a balanced person can be a "white witch" or a "black witch" or whatever colour you can think of, because i believe in balance... everything needs to be in balance, night, day, "good", "bad", happy, sad etc etc... so i embrace the dark and the light.... so to speak. I dont do things that i consider "bad" but i embrace things that other people would consider negative or dark etc.....

Anyway, to save myself going off on a tangent i'm gunna shut up now =D

Blessed be
Pix