Death

[Frances]

Just wondering if people would be interested in discussing their thoughts, ideas on death etc. A friend forwarded something from her mother about the afterlife that to me sounded rather new age ... but this got me thinking - what is the Pagan concept of death? Is there such a thing? Is there a Pagan equivalent to the Catholic "last rites" - or has anyone been in a situation when they have been asked to provide such words of comfort?

My own perception is based on my metaphysical background of the soul's transition - does anyone adapt other spiritual practices - ie the Buddhist bardo states etc??

[medievil_witch]

i have no idea of what happens after death i do believe in past life and i know we can have attachments from sould who choose to stay or refuse to believe they are dead, i don't think anyones belief on this is wrong maybe our belief is what will be at the end, until we have passed we will never know what is on the other side.

[Frances]

The following is perhaps one Pagan view on death etc .. http://www.tokoni.com/story/4853/a-pagans-view-of-death.html - I don't know whether people agree or disagree with it ...

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Most Pagans believe in reincarnation. Our souls come back lifetime after lifetime, to learn new lessons and to grow as individuals. Between lives, our souls reside in the Summerlands. It's neither heaven nor hell, but a place for our souls to rest and reflect on the experiences of completed lives. You may be reunited with loved ones as well. What happens when we learn all we can on this earthly plane? I really couldn't say.

People who are unfamiliar with Paganism tend to see the lack of heaven or hell as meaning we live our lives without responsibility. We may not consider ourselves doomed to suffer for an eternity in a Christian hell, but we certainly believe that there are consequences to our actions. Those who do 'evil' deeds, will find their punishment in another lifetime. Karma follows a soul from life to life. Our fates are not determined by any one single action, but rather by the overall accumulation of actions throughout our lives.

Since many Pagans are influenced by the pantheons they work with, their views of the afterlife may come from the culture they work with. In other words, if you are Pagan but work with Norse Deities, you may feel more drawn to the idea of Asgard rather than the Summerlands, even though you are not truly following an Asatru path.

The Summerland is the name given by Pagans and other earth-based religions for their afterlife. The belief is that after one experiences life to its fullest and comes to know and understand every aspect and emotion of life (usually after many reincarnations), their deity will let them into the Summerland. The Summerland also functions as a place of rest between incarnations. As the name suggests, it is often envisaged as a place of beauty and peace, where everything people hold close to their hearts is preserved in its fullest beauty for eternity. It is envisioned as containing wide (possibly eternal) fields of rolling green hills and lush grass

In modern usage, the term is synonymous with the Pagan afterlife. The essence of the place is that it is a resting ground where we can reflect on the life we have just led, see if we have learned the lesson we intended to learn, and then try again in due course. The lesson we wish to learn is ours to choose, but we have little if any knowledge of it when we arrive on the mortal plane again. The Summerland is also envisioned as a place for recollection and reunion with deceased loved ones.

[Rachel]

I never quite had the words, knowledge or eloquence to describe what I "felt" was the answer to this question, but you have quite literally taken the raw thoughts straight out of my head and there they are in print! If this is not evidence of the "truth and reality" of our paths, our lives and our religion, well I just dont know what is. Like Ive said many times, being very new to my awareness of who I am, I find comments like this so uplifting and they reinforce what Ive always believed. It's not just fantasy or wishful thinking.
I love this site, I continue to learn everytime Im here, thanks everyone!

[medievil_witch]

ooops sorry,"from sould" -i should re read what i have writen i went to write ither stuff n deleted it obviously not all off it, so please ignor the from sould i have no idea what i was writing or even the miss spelling.

[Frances]

Summerland - An Introduction
http://www.wicca-chat.com/summerland.htm

Belief in reincarnation or the spiral of life, death, and rebirth is a major part of the Wiccan religion. Every form of Wicca I have ever heard of believes in and accepts the concept of having multiple lives. I know there are a few Witches that aren't thrilled about having to keep coming back :), but they believe in it as just a common fact of existence. On this page, I will discuss common Wiccan beliefs about death and reincarnation as well as my personal beliefs. I will tell you what I was taught before you read any further... reincarnation is not something you must teach yourself to believe, it's something you must know in your heart and believe in without a doubt. Never force yourself to believe in anything, it's what you feel inside that is right for you, no matter what anyone else believes in.

General reincarnation and death beliefs - All Wiccans believe in something different, that is one of the many
things makes this religion and way of life so great. Most factors of Wicca include a basic book type description from which you can base your ideas on. The basic Wiccan belief of reincarnation is that you are energy, a shapeless, sexless form that moves from one body which is no longer needed to the next. You are placed on Earth to learn a lesson. Each incarnation you are born into, you must learn or relearn a different lesson through experiencing a variety of different lifestyles. When you have learned all you need to learn in your present life, you move on, die. Death is not seen as a punishment or a bad thing, but in a way, it's a good thing. It means you have completed one step on the incarnal ladder. After you die, you are brought to the Summerland which is kind of like the Wiccan equivalent of Heaven, but since we have no devil, we have no Hell. The Summerland is where the spirits that presently do not have an earthly body wait for the right time to return to Earth. It is known by many
names and is often referred to as the Land of Eternal Summer and seen as a gorgeous, lush green field, with beauty and trees all around you, with a bright blue sky and a few puffy white clouds, cute little animals... *sigh* Anyway, moving on, when you enter the Summerland after death, you review your life and see what you did right and what
you did wrong and need to change. This isn't judgment! You are not punished, but you are taught through karma what you need to learn. For example, if in this life you made fun of all overweight people, then in your next life, chances are you'll be an overweight person who is made fun of constantly. This wouldn't be to punish you, but to show you what the people you made fun of went through and how it hurt them. You may not know it in your earthly life why you are being made fun of and it will probably seem unfair, but when you die and reveiw your life, that is where you will be shown, 'this is why that happened. So as you live and die and live again, your soul learns and grows and you become a better person until you acheive your final incarnation...

Then, no one knows what happens. After you have reached enlightenment and no longer have to return to Earth, then what? Well, no one knows for sure. Many believe it's simply because what happens then is beyond the comprehension of the human mind. We only use ten percent of our brains, knowledge that advanced sure would be pushing our little brains! So everyone has their theory of what happens after the mysterious final incarnation. It's a very fun thing to think about and is a good start into customizing your religious experience. My personal beliefs about reincarnation are in the next section below, but they are just my beliefs, they didn't come from any book and I don't claim them to be in any way an accurate representation of any form of Wicca, other than my own. :)

The final incarnation in my eyes... I believe in reincarnation in the same way as described above. I also have my own beliefs on what happens after your last incarnation. Reincarnation is something I have always believed in before I discovered I was Wiccan. My belief about how reincarnation works has never changed. Most Wiccans don't believe that humans start out as a rock or animal like some other religions, because we are all equal. In my opinion, all humans, animals, and plants reincarnate as their species. Each incarnation, you return to Earth as your own species, but in a different situation. You may be a Caucasian female one life, and an African American male next time, but you're always a human. After your final incarnation, you have a choice of what you want to do from there. The options you are given are to return to Earth to begin another round of human incarnations, to return as another species, to stay in the Summerland, or to become a spiritual being such as a spirit guide, angel, or through time something such as an elemental. That's what spirit guides and angels are are souls that have completed their incarnations and are qualified to assist those of us that are still on Earth learning and help us know what we need to learn.

Well, that's my opinion. :) Summerland All religious systems have a place where the soul ascends (or descends) when the physical body can no longer function. In Craft belief, we call this place the Summerland. This is the resting place- the way station, if you will- for souls to recover, and categorize information and lessons we have
learned. We have no Hell, or place of terror or damnation.

Reincarnation- the logical process of living, dying, and living againon the earth plane. Some religions also believe in transmigration, where an individual's soul may enter not only the body of a human, but the body of a plant or animal. In most Witchcraft Traditions, reincarnation is the accepted theology for dealing with the subject of death and rebirth. We move with the seasons, the cycle of the Wheel, the turn of birth, death, and rebirth. That part of it usually isn't questioned because it is logical. What is questioned is the space between the living experiences, the number of lifetimes, and the reasoning for going through each one. Also intriguing is "who we were," with whom, and when. Reincarnation is one of Wicca's most valuable lessons. The knowledge that this life is but one of many, that when the physical body dies we do not cease to exist but are reborn in another body answers many questions, but raises a few more. Wicca teaches that reincarnation is the instrument through which our souls are perfected. one lifetime isn't sufficient to attain this goal; hence, the consciousness (soul) is reborn many times, each life encompassing a different set of lessons, until perfection is achieved. No one can say how many lives are required before this is accomplished. In Wicca, we seek to strengthen our bodies, minds and souls. We certainly live full, productive earthly lives, and we do so while harming none. The soul is ageless, sexless, non-physical,
possessed of the divine spark of the Goddess and God. Each manifestation of the soul (i.e., each body it inhabits on Earth) is different. No two bodies or lives are the same. What happens after death? Only the body dies. The soul lives on. Some Wiccans say that it journeys to a realm variously known as the Summerlands, Land of the Faerie, the Shining Land, and the Land of the Young. This realm is neither in heaven nor the underworld. It simply is- a non-physical reality much less dense than ours. Some Wiccan traditions describe it as a land of eternal summer, with grassy fields and sweet flowing rivers, perhaps the Earth before the advent of humans. Others see it vaguely as a realm without forms, where energy swirls coexist with the greatest energies- the Goddess and God in their celestial identities. The soul is said to review the past life, perhaps through some mysterious way with the deities. This isn't a judgment, a weighing of one's soul, but an incarnational review. Lessons learned or ignored are brought to light. After the proper time, when the conditions on Earth are correct, the soul is reincarnated and life begins again. The final question- what happens after the last incarnation? Wiccan teachings have always been vague on this. Basically, the Wiccans say that after rising upon the spiral of life and death and rebirth, those souls who have attained perfection break away from the cycle forever and dwell with the Goddess and God. Nothing is ever lost. The energies resident in our souls return to the divine source from which they originally emanated. Because of the acceptance of reincarnation, the Wicca don't fear death as a final plunge into oblivion, the days of life on Earth forever behind them. It is seen as the door to birth. Thus our very lives are symbolically linked with the endless cycles of the seasons which shape our planet. Reincarnation is as real as a plant that buds, flowers, drops
its seed, withers and creates a new plant in its image.

Wicca- A Guide For The Solitary Practitioner: by Scott Cunningham
and,
To Ride A Silver Broomstick: by Silver RavenWolf

[Ravenari]

I believe that there is enough room in the otherworlds for pretty much every view on 'life after death' to exist, and even for the view that people aren't reincarnated and either stay in the same place, or just merge back into the ether, or whatever you want to call it.

My own views aren't fixed. I tentatively believe in reincarnation, but it's something I'm still finding myself. Basically looking for a belief system that I'm personally comfortable with when it comes to 'life after death.'

[Frances]

As a Pagan, what do you think happens? This is what I am starting to get interested in. Many traditions talk about a tunnel of white light etc but what happens after that?

Reincarnation is also a very interesting topic. I read somewhere when I was studying metaphysics that we incarnate 21 times ... why 21 times? Hmm, I've yet to receive an answer that I am satisfy with as I was simply told "just because" - which doesn't do much for me.

I also know of Pagans who don't believe in reincarnation - this is our one any only life. Again an interesting concept.

My personal belief is of the evolution of the soul which is done through various incarnations -how many, I don't know but what I do know is that this (at least to me) is undeniable as I have experienced past lifes .. but then again I have a bit of an active imagination and who knows, I could simply be tapping into the collective consciousness/akaski records or something similar ... :)

BB - Frances

[Dianne]

Giggle, gigle, giggle "circus tent"! Better order two, one for you and one for me.

Frances this really is a great topic. It is making me think - until now I have held that when we die our energy/atoms are released back to their source/ether (I got this from a friend who once told me that atoms attact atoms, and that atoms have been proven to 'hold' memories) this pool of energy/atoms is then recycled into new life, be it flora or fauna - a form of reincarnation I guess, but not the sort of reincarnation that results in a 'complete' soul's (if that's the right term) return (if that makes sense). For me, this theory explains the idea of past lives, humans returning as animals or animals returning as humans, etc. - if our 'atoms' are drawn from various sources, and that they 'hold' memories, then it stands to reason that those memories are able to be accessed by intuitive individuals. Yes, fasinating topic, just wish I had time to delve into it futher.
BB
Di

[Dianne]

Black - always black - very slimming colour!

Sean? Ha! Think not - you girls had Johnny for weeks and didn't share so I'm keeping Sean to myself for awhile - besides he just loves my 'big' sand pit!

No, Heaven is not a place I believe in either - but, (dodging the flaming bolts thrown at me) I don't exactly believe in a 'Summerland' either (I think that's what it is called - sorry if I have it wrong, but to be honest I haven't taken too much notice) . I really don't see much difference between the two, 'Heaven' and 'Summerland', different names for a similar concept.
BB
Di

[Frances]

Are you able to post the link again, Gia, because I can't seem to open it. I don't seem to be doing all that well with modern technology at the moment :(

[medievil_witch]

hmm well everyone else seems to believe in something or have more knoledge on the subject more than me but i am for the living i can't depress myself thinking of death as i do not know what will happen so i won't ponder on the unknown and hope we all have a wonderful afterlife i still think every one (and there religion/belief) could be right so i will not think of a bad place as i don't want to go there lol who does, be happy is all i can say take what we are given

[Frances]

When I get a moment I might post something from the notes I took when I read the Tibetan Book of the Dead as basically the essence of what this book is about is the more we understand the concept of death, espeically those who believe in reincarnation, the more we understand the concept of life.

I think it is part of our Christian-based society to perceive any talk about "death" as negative - strange considering that Christianity is actually a "death orientated" religion. Yes, death does have an aspect of sadness and grief attached to it - however it also has an aspect of release, freedom - not to mention transformation (well, at least for me) and in the cyclic nature of things, it is far from an ending.

But each to their own.

MW, your comment ".. as i don't want to go there.. " reminds me of something Woody Allen (?) said -“I’m not afraid to die... I just don’t want to be there when it happens!”

BB - Frances